Dad?
The mumbling guy in that concrete corner -
can I unrag him slow with my eyes and hands
and cram him into a garbage can half-filled with ice
for, um, like, three days and three nights
then roll him out like a stone to crescentmoon desert cold
and watch him shrink up small as an elf
watch him disappear into himself?
Sounds frigid, little girl. So do it.
You were trained, basic, to a military patriot's toughness.
Dad?
That hard young dude with jihad eyes -
can I cuff his wrists and his ankles to a wall behind him
bang his balls with my riflebutt so he hangs at an angle
into a question-mark, into, you know, more like Jesus
then put a cottonbag caked with goatshit over his head
and drench it with water 'til he Allahs and pisses himself?
Sounds sexy, buddy boy. Go to it.
The fun of no rules means no rules can come up broken.
But...Dad?
Why do we feel numb and blue, like, uh, bummed by a truth?
Truth, kids, is what your peers will let you get away with.
Sure it sucks to mess with these guys. Even with yourselves.
But it's just a job. It's what you do. Block it out.
Blow it off to a memory storage device external to you.
But...Dad?
Why do we feel so ugly and bad inside our smiles?
Because beauty is bad, and bad is beauty.
That is all you know in your sandbox
and all you need to know.
But...Dad...
Don't spit in my well! I give a fuck what you feel?
Feelings are fantasies, power is real.
So do whatever you want with those men
but for God's sake, don't kill them.
A prose-poem that, I hope, adds up to a poem-poem. All suggestions are welcome.
Sorry, you cannot respond to an archived poemReviews
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Hey Lad
Well there's lots to say about this poem. But I'm generally not one to leave lengthy comments, I tend to get too much off topic. haha, well anyways. I liked the way you added in how he/she asks dad the questions if they are right or wrong. Really making the stupidity of them stick out b/c we as adults already know the answers, but we do it anyway, without thinking. Revealed the childishness in our ways. I'm not sure if that was your intent, but that's what it did for me. Everything else was great. Good attention to detail. Sadly because this is real it's a little more than I'd like to read. But yet you crafted it so well I have to read it again. Awesome job Lad.
TTYL
MM
. Rewarded 8
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Hi, Marcus, and thanks for the read and thoughtful comment. Yes, for sure, the allowed torture of prisoners, by Christians to Muslims, is a horror of our day - and is being permitted by the so-called bosses, the "adults", of our young soldiers. I often wonder what the longterm effects will be on our young men and women who've done the things in the poem.
Later...
Lad
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Wow, Lad, truly powerful stuff from you here. It took a little time, maybe the second stanza before I fully 'cottoned' what your on about and that 'deepened the mystery' in weird way because I took the address to your father to be a literal one. You might re-read yourself in that light and see what I mean, (and by way of short aside, you might reconsider the footnotes - I'm always against them unless they are absolutely indispensable and here they remove the chance for creative misunderstandings such as mine).
No question in the wide world that this is a poem-poem despite its prosaic disguise. The repitition of key notes and phrases helps assert that and integrate it but just some of the language and imagery, like the guy hanging in a S more like Jesus nails this(sorry- accidental I assure you) as one of your very best.
It loosens up a fair bit toward the end and I think you might try 'tightening' it here, maybe even introducing a few gentle rhymes to ram home the point. I'd split the line
'Because beauty is bad,and bad, beauty
thus
'Because beauty is bad,
and bad, beauty'
to help avoid confusion and stumbling over the ear hearing 'bad beauty'.
But basically I just want to say well done. Great Write. >W<
thus
. Rewarded 8
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John, great comment on this one, and helpful too. I adjusted a few items according to your good suggestions; much better, tighter, now I think.
There's a lot going on in this one, even more than I knew after finishing it. The whole sexual-religious paradox for one thing - so much for a nation, a military and a political administration that prides itself on its moral/religious uprightness and its Christianity...
As always, thanks!!
Cheers...
Lad
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Unexpected.
This was powerful, from beginning to ending. In my opinion the use and re-use of "dad?" gave this poem its power. Lad, i think this is the most powerful poem of yours that i have read. It kept me reading, and it maybe me disgusted in how things are. The use of a parent-child as a metaphor for this socio-political issue was impressive and refreshing. I was moved by this poem, for it makes me ask 'what has happened?' So inhumane, but tolerated for what? The lack of responsibility of the parent/the government towards its people is just insane. The cold separation between conscience and duty is scary. I just don't get it. How can we treat other human beings that way? Do we fear them that we must let them recognize our power? Do we have the right to inflict pain on other people because they're prisoners? Do we just turn a blind eye and leave a fine print saying 'just don't kill them'?
Its definitely a poem-poem. Always, such poems make me ponder even more about how things are in the world. I'm fortunate to have read this.
-iphios. Rewarded 8
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Iphios, I'm so glad the poem moved your feelings about the current military's attempt to separate, as you say, duty from conscience. That's what I hoped for in this poem. After I read the article mentioned in the notes, my mind began whirring and wouldn't stop until pen went to paper. The whole writing process on this one literally put me into a temporary depression - the facts of what's being done - often to innocent prisoners - is horrifying. So much for "a Christian nation."
Thanks for such an empathetic comment, Iphigene.
Later...
Lad
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I really like the way you wrote this poem... the style... it's different. I think conversation always livens up any piece of writing.
The messages and imagery were really strong. I loved it.. Rewarded 4
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Hi, bc, and thanks for visiting and commenting so kindly on this poem.
I haven't seen you on the site before, so I'll be visiting your page as soon as possible. Really glad the poem spoke to you.
Later...
Lad
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hey lad
i agree with the other comments Powerful. the use of Dad was perfect, i took dad as an archtype for conscience, the person who we seek moral guidance and approval from. however like they say a person can rationalize anything, even getting approval for dad that he would never give. great work that should be sent out
dave. Rewarded 6
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dave, thanks for such a thoughtful reading. In my head, as I wrote this one, I saw the whole military complex, especially Bush as Commander "Dad" in Chief. But, your take is easily as true as that - somewhere inside me and inside the poem too, there's Conscience. I really appreciate that thought. This whole torture business is, I think, a deep stain on the soul of America. So much for "Christian values..."
Later...
Lad
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Topical and relevant. Good punctuation on the throws of non-politicking, human perplexities, such as truth. I'm not sure if this description intends to exonerate the peons or not.
. Rewarded 4
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Thanks, exo, for the read and comment; glad you liked it. No, the poem's intention is to blame the soldiers, their "dad" superiors, and ultimately the Commander "Dad" in Chief. Bad business all the way down the chain.
Later...
Lad
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Hey, Lad.
This is gripping. From an American standpoint the images are sadly recognizable, and becoming all too frequent. No matter whether one has been living under a rock on Mars for the past 16 years (I have), this sort of sick shit is still what we know, what we hear, what our image is being projected as to the world at large. Even without the details I know that this is the single most lasting image of my generation, and it's with that knowledge that we have to face the world.
On a larger scale, even without the specifically imaged episodes, I got so much from this. My junior year has been a sobering one, in that my teachers have finally decided that we don't need it sugercoated anymore: people are sick. I don't mean that everyone is sick, or even that people who are viewed as sick are sick, but rather that humanity has caught this terrible, ethical/moral flu, and it's just being passed from father to son, from mother to daughter, from parent to child to cousin to brother to stranger to those destitute on the street. That you have here a dialogue between "Dad" and "children" makes that even more evident to me. I don't doubt that parents--in the best of circumstances--do their best to teach their children right from wrong as it is evident to them. It is unfortunate, then, that for some reason people's sense of these two very nuanced things has become skewed and botched and judged on an every day basis by something soulless and conformist. I have been tempted at times to place the blame on the times, on the move from a society of Julie Andrews and The Sound of Music to...whatever our society is now. But I don't think that's so. Maybe it's even that we've always been like this, that there is no period in history when people truly cared for each other. I don't know. I think that while it's important to know history, now more than ever we have to focus on those things that we find wrong and try, personally, to fix them. If I can't count on myself to do right, who can I count on? There's absolutely no way that anything good can happen without individual personal responsibility first being taken.
That being said, I can only hope that someday I will feel ready not only to have and support children, but to be able to give them some strong convictions and values that I'm still working on gaining right now. It's not really too late to change the world, only I think I'll have to start it and leave it up to my children. This poem reminds me that I can't be selfish, and I'd better figure out how to reconcile that.
Much love,
Nienna. Rewarded 8
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Nienna, you many takes on this one - all of them you see and feel in this poem - are what I hoped to conjure up, and even what I didn't even know I was conjuring up. I think my subconscious was working overtime on it, imaging military torture prisons approved by all the "Dads" of superior officers and all the way to the President.
Also, the slow breakdown I feel, rightly or wrongly, in America's hardwon freedoms and conscience, and the way so many young, echoing their adult models, are losing a sense of decency, order and justice, maybe even compassion, in order to enhance their view of what it means to be strong. Bad business all the way, as you say.
I fear, as you perhaps do too, the gradual erosion of our much-vaunted Christian, or at least, spiritual "values" - more and more "rules", increasing arrogance, less and less heart.
I hope, and I know you do too, that I'm wrong, but I worry - hence this poem. Just as slave-owners themselves became enslaved, torturers become tormented. I hope it's only a cycle that will reverse, and soon; I need OUT of this depressing thinking.
Later, Luv...
Lad
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stunned...speechless...
what can i say? that this is a piece of work that makes my scribblings insignificant? that this is the kind of poem that speaks so eloquently of how eroded our values are these days?
what can i say?
truly, lad, when i read this poem, i was like...bombed, literally...because in an ironic way, you presented something that we see so often today yet we don't even recognize at all...i know that your poem has got something to do with torture and all the horrible things that are happening all over the globe...but, really, when i read your poem, those things were not what i thought of...i immediately saw a picture of kid asking her dad if she could punch a kid who poured juice on her and then the dad gave his daughter a piece of stick to beat the kid up...
i mean, we have parents like these today...it's not just our leaders who are giving people the permission to hurt other people...there are also many of them in our neighborhoods. although, what these people are doing may be small and insignificant compared to the larger happenings in this world, but hey, where do all big things start, right?
thank you for sharing this poem, lad...i wish i could write something as great as this...later, when i am more mature, i do hope i can...
. Rewarded 8
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I'm so pleased, leigh, by your thoughts on this poem. You read it deeply, and that's always appreciated.
And, yes, you picked up on what's going on under the poem's lines - that it images more than the war prisons, that it's about what I sadly see, as you do, something sinister going on from elder to child these days, a loosening of respect for each human being's dignity. And you're right again, in my opinion, about the small things slowly adding up to bigger ones.
Again, sincere thanks for your perceptive comments about this poem, whose subject(s) I really didn't want to write about, but felt I had to.
Later...
Lad
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A very insperational piece
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Thank you, SLA, for the read and comment. I'm glad you liked it.
Later...
Lad
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Hey Lad. I really like this piece. At first glance, I had my typical reaction to what I assumed was a "political poem". Nothing against that theme, just not one that works for me too often. But, knowing you, I had to give it a closer read because I know your poems often have more to them than that. Then, I admit I was a little unsure of my reaction so I peeked below and was SO glad to see leigh's comment because what I got from this was so much deeper than a commentary on torture during war. It was really a commentary on society in general, and it does not necessarily need to be American. I got a feeling of that "look out for #1 and step on everyone else" mentality that has become pervasive. I thought of people who are often looked down on with contempt these days such as the homeless, disabled, sick, and elderly and how so many people not only allow this callous snubbing but actually encourage it, teach it, and model it. It strikes a note with me since I am so actively interested in bringing character education into our schools. What amazes me is how often people shoot it down, saying it is an attempt to bring religion into the classrooms again. In my view, it is absurd. Ideals such as respect for others, community service, generosity, and empathy are not a religion... they are qualities I believe everyone can embrace whether they are a militant atheist or Pope. Okay... okay... I am not going to stand on my soap box here. lol
All in all, I think you can see that this poem worked for me. I am certainly very glad I gave it that closer read, and credit goes to you because it is your talent as a writer that made me know it deserved it. Good job.
. Rewarded 8
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Mark, as a dedicated teacher of the young, you zeroed in on what this poem was really all about. A rather cynical piece, I must admit, one that goes against my nature, but it's what I felt and continue to see going on increasingly. People take their cues as to how to act toward one another largely from their governments, and it all trickles down almost imperceptively to the general public; certainly not to all of them, but to enough to threaten a breakdown of decency, forgiveness and compassion, not to mention self-awareness as to what we do to other people, and eventually to ourselves.
So, I really appreciate your comments on the poem; you read it with the kind of attentiveness that any poet craves.
In addition, the poem has undertones of an arrogant kind of Christianity (far from the Gospels' Jesus) as superior to Islam. That may be true (frankly, I think Islam, often - not always - is a warlike religion, stuck in its Middle Ages), but it doesn't justify shameless cruelty on the part of supposed followers of Christ.
Anyway, your comments meant a lot to me, Mark. I hesitated posting this one because of its brutal tone - a definite no-no to reader-poets who want poems to be uplifting and tender. But, in the end, I went with my feelings, which I believe poetry should bring out of a writer. Sincere thanks, as always.
Lad
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a very graphic piece, jolting.
a very good and morbid take on the morals of today, and the strange sense of corrupt justice underlying.
it gives a glance into the twisted perspective of some people these days, for many people would agree with the dealings in this poem im sure.
it was a very interesting read to say the least.
. Rewarded 6
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Hi, BK. You saw right into the soul of this poem. Behind the fairly obvious rendering of torture, now a horribly accepted part of the current Admistration's war-making, there are all kinds of tonal allusions to the trickle-down of that attitude into the general public today, especially down to impressionable children, and maybe even down to their increasingly rule-breaking parents - adults who should know better.
Dreary thoughts, but that's what came up from my subconscious as I worked this poem out.
Thanks for a great read, as always, BK.
Lad
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Eye Opening
I loved this piece. A lot. At face value, it was a disturbing light on our patriotic misdeeds in the "War on Terror" which seems to lack rules along with a battlefield. But this isn't about my political views. This is about one hell of a poem from Lad. The deeper meaning is even more troubling than the superficial. The culture of our authority figures leading us astray, callousness towards those who we are trained to demonize, quixotic pursuits of power, and increasingly damaged minds.
On a technical level, the repetition and flow was really effective for me, along with the steady buildup of depravity.
Great stuff. I look forward to more. Thanks for a great read.
-Zig
. Rewarded 8
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Zig, I can't thank you enough for such an attentive reading of this one. You caught the surface and the undercurrent of the poem as I hoped a reader would. Right: it's all bad business, a deterioration of what we're supposed to stand for, even in war, even in an absurd war. But, I guess, the more absurd the war, the more surreal the rules get. Not good.
Your word "depravity" hits the mark just right. Again, thanks for the probing comment. I'll be checking your page asap.
Later...
Lad
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The old fashion dad
I get the feeling from this poem about the old fashion dad. Feeling is for ladies. Right is right and wrong is wrong and don’t cry period!
Dads like that are very insecure deep within since they feel like they should be a role model for their kids but have nothing so they turn to intimation. I had a dad like that also. I hated him as a teenager but now knowing how his father was to him then he knew no better and that he did his best. He is going to be 80 next year and he has changed a lot. (Probably due to my rebellious youth!)
Great read Lad
Bill
. Rewarded 8
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Hi, Bill, and thanks for your read and thoughtful comment about Dads - and your take on that makes plenty of sense.
I meant the poem more as an image of soldiers, torturing prisoners these days, and looking up to "Dad" (their superiors and the ultimate Dad in the White House for approval), but your take on the poem goes deep too.
And yes, good old "rebellious youth" - how we change over the years...and for the good!
Later...
Lad
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Incisive...
Lad, so many good images here that really tell the story.
And the doublespeak of "Dad" is Orwellian.
"... so he hangs at an angle
into a question mark, into you know, more like Jesus..."
That's one of the key lines and reveals the mania of conversion, and "God is on our side" character of what's going on. Great work, MJ. Rewarded 6
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Thanks for the read and thoughtful comment, Rich. You picked up on the "Jesus" line and the God-is-on-our-side absurdity of what's going on in our secret prisons - bad business.
I've been off the site for several days due to a computer virus, now killed, I hope. Back at you asap.
Later
Lad
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Ultimate Situation-Ethics
The sins of the fathers.
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Thanks for the read and perfectly zoned-in comment, JG - the sins of the father indeed. I suspect our country here will be paying for its inhumane wrongdoings for a very long time.
I've been off the site for almost two weeks, taking a breather, and I'm uncertain if I'll stay on it as a member much longer. I'll try to return your fine favor soon.
Later...
Lad
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marcusmoore
April 5, 2008