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Warning: rant to follow.
Lately, I have seen some people commenting that this is only a "mediocre" site-- referring to the quality of poetry. Yet these people continue to post their work here and accept praise and compliments from all of us sub-par poets.
If we are all so bad that you feel compelled to make some snide remark in your every post, then why are you even here? Why would you want our opinions? I'm sure you can find any number of unbearably pretentious websites filled with people just like you. When people write poetry, they bare their souls. It may not be Wordsworth, but it's how they feel. Have some respect.
If you are so talented, then surely you have better things to do than run down a bunch of people who are just trying to enjoy poetry.
And unless somebody here is just being coy, no one here's a bloody laureate.
That is all. -
Your problem, your problem...
Dear Pie, I didn't mean to hurt you. Life is mediocre, and still there are outstading things in it. You do not know what mediocre means, that's for sure. Have you ever heard about the \"aurea mediocritas\"? With that inutile comment of yours, you just gave a clear picture of what I never wanted to say. Proceed with your work and do not get scared with reality. This site may be mediocre, but not all the people are as representative of that as you seem to be. Best wishes,
Custodio Maia Thalassos-Bettencourt.
PS - Next time do not get scared of presenting your critiques directly to me. If you want "show", I won't reply to you any more. -
I am not hurt, I am angry. I agree that life is mediocre, but what people do here is try to create something in spite of it. Poetry is an art form that everyone can be fearless about trying, unlike painting or music which requires some rudimentary technical knowledge, and, often, moderate expense. They attempt poetry not because they ever expect great praise or even publication, but because people must express themselves. Language and its rhythms lives in our blood. Nothing is more natural than to try and find an eloquent expression of our innermost thoughts.
Are you saying that you view the term "mediocre" as complimentary? Consult your dictionary. I am aware of the Golden Mean, but that and the modern use of the word mediocre are not synonymous. I have often wondered, when I read your poetry, if English is your second language? You often handle it as if it is, like Nabokov. (I do not say this as to be derogotary, I am genuinely curious.)
Mediocre, very simply, is not a constructive word. No one is above a critique, but everyone is worthy of encouragement.
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Right on.
What you say makes sense. We are here, especially here, to share as the title says, our perceptions of our world, sometimes merely to vent, knowing there are others who nod yes, yes, glad not to be alone.
To be able to express a unique point of view uniquely is already worthy of respect, when you consider the hordes of illiterates who can only throw stones.
Yet, if we can help each other, we all grow.
Honesty has its place, certainly, but the awareness that truth can be told constructively is a sign of maturity of the one who dishes it out. I think part of it is the skill to know who would benefit from a more robust critique-- the complacent dilettante ( I have been called that) The pompous know-it-all, (that too.) They are fair game, as am I.
Respect is a two-way road however.
Surely he would never treat a beginning poet in that manner, but knew a remnant dinosaur like me would see the humour.
And then he blocked me.
But understandable. Not all of us have yet developed the over-aged maturity of a prune, or the elephant skin to take a full barrage without bruises, but those who did many years ago, can actually benefit from adverse views. It rattles complacency as it should. It disputes what we thought we knew, and reveals how little we really know for sure. That is a *very* good thing. Considering that all experience can strengthen us, an experience like this can be a boost in the right direction.
(If only as fodder for your next novel!)
Keep well,
Terry, the pedantic old crone.
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I feel you loud and clear...
Poetry just is. If you get mediocrity out of the baring of one's soul, I think you are dead to life. Whitman was a fruity ne-erdowell in his time who was often referred to as mediocre and of little interest. Times change and all of a sudden he is revered as a genius. Personally, I do think he writes beautifully, but that is just my opinion. There are some acclaimed authors that I find quite boorish, and yet they are touted as brilliant.
It's all a matter of opinion and personal taste. So to tout work as "mediocre" is more a bombastic proclamation that your taste is the be-all, end-all. I find that a bit buffoonous, to be quite honest with you. People are interested in comments on their work, not comments on how highly the reader esteems himself and his high-brow opinion.
I too, have taken special issue with certain characters espousing the mediocrity of this site. I read the comments of one such as he unfeelingly tore into a friend of mine here who just recently lost someone she loved. She poured her heart out in poetry. This fellow then proceeded to tear what was left of her heart out with a rather gutting critique.
I try to remember: If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. I do however at times digress from this mantra in the lop-sided interests of justice. But never in a critique.
This was a most valid point to discuss and I thank you for bringing it to our attention.
Sincerely,
Al -
I agree, too.
On the subject of tone, and calling things mediocre...
It is an interesting thing, language. When I was a teenager, I considered myself highly intelligent because I grasped long words (which I mistakingly took for 'advanced vocabulary') and was able to be arch and sarcastic. Oh, I felt so sophisticated using my favourite words (superflous, mediocre and immature).
It took me about three months of university, with REAL experts slamming my archness, to realise that the best vocabulary addresses the task in hand, regardless of syllable count, and that feeling secure in one's subject knowledge means one no longer has to be arch or facetious. Twelve years later, I still work with words on a daily basis, I have the kind of academic CV that any arch 6th former would love to have ... many, many little letters after my name. Does any of this matter a jot? No. It is my intellect, conduct and manners which matter and earn respect (or not, as the case may be). Sarcasm, mud-slinging and witty asides are rude.
Screeching 'mediocre' appears ironic; what great poetry expert would bother with such protest? surely they'd quietly down tools and walk, integrity intact?
Name-calling is pointless. We are writers and should be supporting each other, each according to ability.
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Sad Agreement
Dear Squeezy,
If you felt sophisticated using words as "superflous", "mediocre" and "immature"... my God! you were sad indeed! Also, congratulations for you CV - perhaps you'd like to put it online, in PDF format, please? Sarcasm is not rude - unless we consider Rabelais rude, which by certain people, would not surprise me that much. Name-calling is pointless, you say. Should I just start to insult you in your polite tone: "Screeching 'mediocre' appears ironic; what great poetry expert would bother with such protest? surely they'd quietly down tools and walk, integrity intact?". Please do let me know if you do want that, because you surely won't get it. I wish you all the best for you personal development and professional career. With respect, CMT-B.
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you have a point. but i think that most people will who pose as the real thing then being themselves, will often bash someone out of pure jealousy just to make themselves feel alittle bit more supieror.
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i don't know, mediocre seems rather accurate to me.
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Don't sweat it, I think everyone got their cry out.
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good. but i mean, i know i'd freak out too if someone had the right to express their opinion, and that was an opinion i happened to disagree with. that'd be SO ANNOYING. they'd probably make an amendment out of it or something. man. scary to even think of. quick, someone say something i don't like so i can stomp my feet. i've got my stompin' boots on.
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Here here, CP...
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Yes, it's true that poetry here is not exactly famous material. But we all become better poets by writing and getting advice, which is what this site is all about. I have seen some great poetry here and other poetry that def. has potential. If we all help each other, we will not only be helping that person, but ourselves.
My fav. thing about this site is the warmth i get from other poets. I've been on other sites like this and all I get is negitivity and no constructive critiqism. So I love you guys and just be who you are. Never stop writing!
julia -
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Words of wisdom, Julia
Added to that is the freedom to express that many older writers did not enjoy. Except for what I did in class, until I had lived half my years, no one knew I even wrote poetry--or what passed for ballads and limericks, and discouraging, even when they knew, nothing was said.
Much better this way!
Terry -
Great words Julia, that is the key to what its all about, keep writing and you shall only improve and grow. I certainly have since joining this site.
And I promise to never stop writing
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I have to say its not mediocre, and don't understand how people can think it is. I have made so many good friends on here, that are so helpful. Yes they sometimes criticise and thats ok, becuase they do it in a respectful way, which is what your saying. Where has the respect gone? for poeple who indeed are just expressing. I don't really care if I dont ever get published etc etc, It makes me feel good to get words out, form them and share them
This entire topic was a fascinating read, each persons views. And really everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Your just not supossed to force it down everyones throat. -
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On "Julia's Wisdom"...
Lovely! But what you have just said, means that this site is mediocre... not in structure, but in content. I mean if these poems will never get published as Auden's (that's for certain), and nonetheless, they are notawful and terrible, that can just mean one thing: that these poems are indeed mediocre. Why is it so hard for you - all of you - to admit that human being is mediocre in essence? Or do you think that just because we call ourselves rational, that suddenly erases the primitive, basic animals that we are? Poetry is nothing but a mediocre attempt to give life a purpose. And of course, like anything else, it fails, it fails painfuly. Lying is the only escape; and perhaps lying about poetry may be a wiser one.
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on mediocre
i think if you peruse the poems on this site you'll find some that bad and mediocre, and some that are outstanding and execptional. I could cite any number for arguements sake. I'd like to know whose so great anyway? There's a lot of famous poets who if they posted their work anonymously on this site, i'd say this is terrible. Go to barnes and noble and pick up an Anthology of poetry, some of the poems will be bad some medicore, some excellent...pretty much like this site.
dave -
For me, it is about connections...
I have never considered myself a poet. When I began writing them last year it was more like "I'll give it a try and see what people say, what is the worst that can happen?" To my total shock, I actually got some good reviews on my poems. I got a healthy stream of advice with it, but certainly a strong dose of confidence from the postiive words. It inspired me to keep writing more poems. Honestly, I still don't consider myself a poet. When I write a poem and it gets a string of praise I feel like I have pulled off some miracle. I do not consider this site mediocre, however, I consider it "real". I am one who thrives on a connection in poetry. Part of the reason I never considered myself a poet was because I'd pick up a famed literary journal, read the poems, and wonder what on G-d's green earth the writer was writing about! It seemed like nonsense to me. Here, I still see a few that make no sense to me, but I see a wealth of poetry that packs a punch in my heart and stimulates my mind. I feel like I am a part of the poem and know what the writer was thinking or feeling. I abhor the idea of going to a class to "learn poetry" or someone "getting it right". I don't believe in a formula or a rule book when it comes to poetry. In a way, I think a primary rule for writing poetry is "break all the rules". As others have said, people on here share their true self with words that sound like art. In my eyes, that is far from mediocre. There are many, may pieces that mae you think and feel, people are honest and sincere in their praise and fair with their suggestions, and there is a fundamental respect for what we are all trying to achieve. That is well beyond "mediocre" in my book. Sometimes the issue isn't a failure of the masses to rise to the top... sometimes the issue is the inability of the few to step down from the ivory tower. -
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Paradise (Not for Me)
Few people inhabit ivory towers, and fewer inhabit a "wormy mahogany" one... I enjoyed the way you wrote: plain and honest. And respectful. As Elizabeth, " I have no desire to make windows into men's souls", nor to impose my own personal points-of-view. I just mean not to be quiet about what I think, and specially, about what I think about what others think. Mediocrity is within us, it is not something that you can simply overcome. But I believe in attempts - actually, in this sense, I think we all do. And finally, everyone can say it better than myself.
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hey mark
couldn't have said it better myself.
dave -
You know what I hate?!?!
I get what you are saying and yes that makes me mad, but what I really hate is when people come here from allpoetry (which I hate BTW) and then say crap about his site, but then they stay. Or what's worse is when they ask for people to look at their work and what not, but it is all at Allpoetry! Hell, if you want opinions on this site...put your shit here! I don't want to go off to a site I dislike just to read some shit you wrote! God people!!!!!!!!!! -
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You know what you hate
You meant: "the shit YOU wrote", right? -
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Thats a pretty rude thing to say......
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It might be manure, of course,
or high-class excrement,
dung or droppings or much worse,
was it do-do that you meant?
Sorry.
Couldn't resist, considering where we are.
Terry
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Adding your reply:
celestialpie
Jul 21 11:42 AM 2006
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