What I see is a pivotal moment--
was that the word? Word so subtle,
acknowledged, seen, but silent.
There is no returning, no rebuttal
nor choice when new direction has
been set. And yet... though new,
its breath held, the moments pass
untold, until they its transition knew.
From potential to reality, it's never
a bad thing, rather a fruition. If
not so, a state of stasis forever
would dry the blossom until stiff.
Passage reached, breached, undo?
Life moves not only from, but also to.
Terry Gibson 2005
Is meaning more important than meter?
Sorry, you cannot respond to an archived poemReviews
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Emerging positivity
Hi Terry. Your reflections here leave plenty of food for thought . I like the way the rhyme progressively struggles to the surface to eventually 'nail' your positive feelings towards change (hurrah for such positivity about the future from one whose peers are more noted for nostalgic leanings). I stuggled a bit with 'they its transition knew' until deciding you had intended it as a subtle double entendre and not just forced a rather clumsy rhyme.
'a state of stasis forever
would dry the blossom until stiff.'
was the poetic highlight of it for me.
My Best to You, Obi Wan. Luke
. Rewarded 8
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Prose vs poetry
I really appreciate a critique I can work from--or at! I'll look at it "from the outside," but in matters of syntax, (word order) this is not a forced expression for me. It does put the object in question closest to the verb, but this poem was not laboured--
since my muse pretty well wrote it all.
"There is no returning, no rebuttal
nor change when new direction has
been set. [Sentence one] Straightforward.
And yet... though so new it holds its breath [while]
"the moments pass untold." Breath being held and all that. You gave me a clue with your comment: "as a subtle double entendre."
Weird things happen "as time stands still," a splitting of time into two simulaneous levels. Reality and dream would be two, and here reality (prose) and revelation, a sudden realization of greater truth.
In this poem, that happening seems to be a matter of semantics. That is, meaning in prose and meaning in poetry are sometimes quite different because of the level at which they occur. Prosaic and poetic, and here the levels are expressed through syntax. (word order)
The crux of the thing: (it is as poetry when they [the moments] its [transition] knew.) Or put it another way, which is more important, the change, or the knowing?
OR
until they [the moments] knew its [time's] transition.
As prose this second choice is more familiar: [subject-verb-object.]
On the other hand strange connections occur in poetry--
Moments and transition melded (meld=to blend) to be the same thing, and thus the knowing of both is simultaneous, a matter more of being than knowing...hence relegation of "knew"to the end.
"Knew " would then be redundant except to explain it to readers
(Unsuccessfully, it seems.)
I owe you one, John. Without your help I would not have been aware the relationships among words here, or how much wiser a Muse can be than the educated one who typed it! Taunting me, for I suspect Muse directed the discussion that follows too!
Language is very interesting when we see it for what it IS.
Terry
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Hi Terry,
I was happy to find this poem. The title was interesting enough to make me read. I think transitions though natural are hard to do. Often that pivotal moment is needed for change to happen.We have to accept change as it come by our way. Change is the most beautiful thing about life. Anyone can transform their lives, hopefully for the better.
I love how subtle the last line is stated. Life is not only moving away from something, but heading to something as well. And on the question you raised, i think meaning is more important than meter at the end of it all. Unless we just say that poetry is solely for the beauty of meter. However, its not to say that we take meter for granted.
-iphios. Rewarded 8
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Change is such a funny word: if it doesn't, it isn't.
A lot of change is not intentional at all--it happens while we are not watching. Growth is one, in stature or mere size, as loss, in disappointment, or circumstance. They say change is the only inevitability, even when predictable or slow, as in aging.
The other day I saw an announcement that in Canada, the average lifespan of women is now 77.4 years. Kind of hit me to think that every day that follows, for I am now at the summit, is truly "over the hill."
Shoot! That could have been another poem.
I should come back here more often!
Thank you, and would you have one you'd prefer to have me see?
I owe you one.
Terry -
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Hey Terry,
thanks for the reply. Well, over the hill as you say you are, i think the fact that you are still able to write and share yourself is a good thing. Who cares about lifespan. Would that mean you aren't average? Haha.
Well, you can actually read any of my poems,but you might want to check "Syllabicated Beneath the Sand." I do love to hear your thoughts in any of my poems. Its been missed.
Linger around the site more terry.
take care
-iphios
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Hey TG
I enjoyed it, don't know all that much about poetry yet but i liked the mixed meter. I often think about the mistakes i've made at important times in my life and wonder how might something be different if I made a different decision. I like the ending the most, especially the very last line. Great duality and blunt/straightforward. It was a pleasant experience, look forward to more.
MM
. Rewarded 8
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Must continue this with firefox
...4
only
a 4 co-
lumn
box. -
With my thanks
Continued on my wheezy old desktop pooter with Linux
and a humungous reply-box stretching across the entire
screen width.... more on that later, maybe.
Thank you Marcus, and you have come to the right place
to find the extent of Po---e---try because we get all
kinds here! The variety of expression from strictest
form (RARE) that gracefully hides the rules it obeys,
(MORE rare!) to the freedom that searches its most
eloquent niches for meaning and tells us clearly.
We get a lot more of those.
With me, mixed meter happens when automatic meter is
turned off in order to find something else... in this
case, an elusive quality that dodges around a very rigid
sonnet form so it does not intrude on meaning.
It is an imperfect sonnet form however, that I prefer to
call a sortasonnet, often to prove rhyme can be hidden.
Automatic meter, is what I call the metric method would
have been the way to go. Fancy word to avoid counting
syllables. If curious check out
http://www.mattaweb.ca/web2008/GREFS.htm
In the chart,
click CourseA-2.htm and find in it: 2,b iambic,
click CourseA-3.htm, in 3,c meter in longer words
click CourseA-5.htm, in 5, where c has trochaic meter
I really want to thank you! You proved two things:
A, the meaning triumphed! That was the important thing
because the other is really no big thing. There are so
many ways to SPELL the same sound, rhymes can be
disguised within their meaning!
B. Were you aware it also rhymed? No? . . . . ?
If not I'm dancing!
a b a b, MOment, SUbtle, SI-lent, reBUTtal (trochaic)
c d c d, has, new, pass, knew (iambic)
e f e f, never, if, forever, stiff (mix)
g g. undo, to.
It may even have worked!
Terry
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Hi, Terry. It's appealing to me that you've taken liberty with traditional sonnet form - many forms of it, for sure - and this is another one, a TerryForm. And why not? To be able to take durable rules, now known so well by the poet, and juggle them at will: this is the joy of poetry. Well, this one gives joy.
Its interior, subtle, voweled and consonanted rhymes are a delight to speak (I read the piece aloud for more enjoyment), and the play with meter is energetic and skilled. And, as if structural design weren't enough, the theme is experiential and smart; for me, it's the fearsome freedom of change, not so much freedom from as freedome to, so often unknown, only felt, "untold, until they its transition knew...a fruition." Just so. And it even has a thoughtful volta in the poem's final third. Wonderfully built from experienced pondering.
I wonder, just a thought: would "choice" work more precisely than "change", considering that change is already the poem's worked-through theme, while "nor choice" might fit more naturally along with "no returning" and "no rebuttal"? But that's the merest of suggestions, Terry. The poem is rich with learned acceptance, one of the finest benefits of thoughtfully getting older and more beautifully insightful. A very fine read for me!
Lad. Rewarded 8
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4wid
e.
Past
ed
in.
Bless yer heart, to quote an old friend, for finding this! I gave your suggestion serious consideration, read it both ways several times,
'change' or 'choice,' 'choice' or 'change' and can tell you I had no choice but to change 'change' to 'choice' simply because it makes better sense! I couldn't agree more! Thank you mightily!
I particularly enjoyed how your comments like "It's the fearsome freedom of change, not so much freedom from as freedom to, so often unknown, only felt,--" echo the feelings in the poem itself! Fearsome freedom indeed, for it really irritates purists who hold the traditional sonnet form somehow sacrosanct.
I don't have to tell you it is not that I have never learned about iambic pentameters or that I hold the true sonnet form in contempt somehow by enjoying sortasonnets.
I have decided temporarily to replace the other one with something more respectable just to reassure those who doubt me, to set their fears at rest.
Not that the replacement is perfect. I must leave space for entertainment, locating several flaws.
Ah but it was nice to hear from an old friend again. I've been away too long. Thank you.
Terry
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Iam in favour (ho ho)
Sometimes the river - there we go again, Terry, it's that pesky river again - has to flow and carry us along. It's a delight to me to take my little raft down a stream as entertaining and informed as this. HOWEVER I am also glad to report that the delight also makes e giggle in one place - YOU KNOW WHERE IT IS - where you've stretched your poetic license to the suspension point. However, in view of your long and dedicated service to the language and its study instead you get 4 more stars. Best to you, nice to hear from you again and hope to see more soon. RA. Rewarded 8
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Annoying glitch only I endure.
..
.2
co
lu
mn
bo
x
Hey, I hit "edit" and got one that is full-size! I wonder if that would always have been possible? ANYhooo I'll go on from here.
Only problem: now I cannot see what YOU wrote.
I'll be back!
Terry
-----------As promised.
You find rivers everywhere! --and yes, there is a subtle undulating effect in its double-metric form I would never have noticed without your rafting downstream on it. That is most peculiar, because I had not realized it was happening, no more than the fact of "poetic license." I am still looking for that, but now my poem has vanished too. Can you help find it?
Pivotal Moment is indeed a strange EVENT, flotsam rather than poem per se, even though it automatically became a sortasonnet. I just sat and typed, and there it was. In effect I might say, it drifted in. I did change one word to "choice" following a suggestion from Lad--much better than what was there.
It is such a joy when small surprises surface through another's reading! Like a stone that sparkles in the sun only when tilted!
Thank you RA!
Terry
Post script: Important!
I read previous replies and found so many interpretations it sets me back on my heels!
Especially the earliest one.
We should never assume as we read our own stuff that surface meaning is all there is.
Sometimes the currents flow deep!
Terry
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wow
Terry, that ending was so powerful I had to re-read the whole thing over again b/c I forgot what was above it. I'm not a huge fan of sonnets but this alteration of it made it for a very amusing read. I thought you captured the thrust of making a decision at a "pivotal" moment in your life. Which way to go? Will I regret? I liked it much!! Best wishes to ya Terry. And I've heard good things about your work so I will be coming to take some more peeks at some pieces you have. till then best wishes.
Sherry L.K.
. Rewarded 8
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Sherry, have I got a deal for you!
Did that catch your attention?
More on that later; first things first. I'm not surprised that the earlier part of Pivotal Moment was easily forgotten. It had to be.
In a state of confusion I had to make a decision, and writing Truth from the inside like that, it did not deal in descriptions. The sonnet form forced it to focus, and the decision was not only spontaneous but genuine.
You knew that a sortasonnet is not a standard form (I write those too) but even though I get flak for them, I like the freedom.
Now, the deal: Went to your home page. I'm a NASCAR fan too, also Formula 1 and CART before they merged with Indy... My son and I never miss races on TV. (Not the deal but you'd fit right in.)
Consider youself invited. In Winklers (where serious poets assemble) Lyndon could see that many really good poets are unsure about grammar because it has not been really taught since the 1960's. Off the curriculum. I had my first full-time classroom and taught it since 1950. Lyndon knew that and asked if I'd consider leading a small mutual-help group. It took me thirty seconds to agree. So far, besides myself, we have three lively members and a lot of fun, and will welcome at least two more. We've been running for a week or so, and all is there to read. USAGE and Grammar.
Anyone else too, IM me for information, or go directly to Winklings and look for my name, "TERRY" You might be glad you did.
Terry
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The last line here is what really makes this all work. As the majority of the poem seems entirely hidgded in time and space, the movement forward in the end reiterates your message (or what I thought the message was) wonderfully. I love the concept you give in the beginning, of a word so subtle it's silent. I could be wrong but my interpretation is that the whole of this pivotal moment is so subtle that even "the moments" (what I take to stand as time) seem to not notice--it's as if time itself has misstepped, and must regather itself for a transition. Although their is vulnerability evident, you also show strength to overcome, and a means of acceptance creeps forward. This is a great poem; one which could be reread simply for your ability to juxtapose two seperate reactions to a single moment, from within and outside, beautifully. Nice.
. Rewarded 8
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Since April 6, Wuthering Heights!
.....
6 to
edit.
I'll
be
back. Only in EDIT do get the privilege of a full-width reply box. OK Starting again!
I have been hopelessly busy and missed getting back for what was probably weeks!
Missed everybody!
You described remarkably well the uprooted rootlessness of focus in the early part of this poem, written as pure unadulterated truth. If it rhymed it would have been my muse at work, if without wonky meter, it was not deliberately done. I do not count syllables except sometimes on fingers as the words arrive. So saying, they were the final throes of helpless indecision and you caught them really well as they sorted out at the last moment.
The decision was a good one. Could it be otherwise when in fact it made itself?
Nothing worse than a forced decision!
Thank you very much, and I hope you'll accept my apologies for this tardy reply. I really must start coming back more often before all my old friends are gone!
Terry
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It is good except for one line.. or word?
I liked this poem well, and thought it has a lot of potential. There is a line that reads "the moments pass untold, until they its transition knew." There is a grammatical error there. It may have been overlooked or perhaps a keyed error, but "until they its transition knew" doesn't make any sense. Unless you wish to rewrite it as "until its transition is renewed." or "until then, its transition renew." Hope I helped.
. Rewarded 8
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I have a NO column box not my reply and must point out that I intend the sentence that made no sense to be as it is,
',,,,,,,,,,,,
In Edit I can continue. The reply box did not even display the comma! Hard to edit a comment in such a box!
About the sentence which I no longer can see while editing, it says exactly what I mean.
I gather you disagree with its syntax--the word order. To put the words as they would ordinarily be said is fine if I had not in fact been describing a state of mental conflict and confusion.
I went back to see the sentence again, and no, the "corrections" would not have fit my meaning at all.
Interesting take on it however.
Terry
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Windhover
January 13